A series of conversations which led to the birth of Climate Chance and an entire new experience with life and the infinite possibilities reality offers.
(documented by Serena)
Summery
On June 20th, Roger flew to Hong Kong in the midnight to meet members of HKCCC for a day before he had to catch a flight later at night. There was no agenda, no plan as to what we are supposed to talk about. As soon as we arrived at the Long Zhou Island, Jessica and Willis tried to book a room for us to stay overnight. When we arrived, sat around the table by the sea and embarked on an unusual conversation, following by experiments with our lives (followed up with Skype Phone Conference Calls). There are four documented conversations all together.
Roger Burton?
As a side-note, Roger Burton is the “designer” for the BP Antarctica Expedition in which I took part. Roger Burton is a collaborative change agent and management consultant (a system thinker, philosopher) for many of the world’s corporations -Shell, BMW, BP etc. (Including help giving birth to BP Renewable).
During the Antarctica Expedition, his designing involved deconstructs design by dismantling any “structure” or “agenda.” In so doing, he gave us the “choice” to decide on our own agenda and the opportunity to really examine our own mental models as people fruitless tried to impose structures onto others. It was an experimental experience in a sense that nobody tried to put knowledge into each other’s vault; it was for you to discover what lies to be learned. As we feel the burden of the choice, we also feel how each of us can only be responsible for our own action. There, as we tried to navigate through the lack of structure, the empty space around us emerged this realization from within.
1st meeting – Hong Kong – June 20th
Participant: Roger, Kartiyeka (Founder and Director of IYCN-Indian Youth Climate Network), Jessica Yuan (President of HKCCC) Mart van de Ven, Peter Chapman, Willis So, Adeel, Serena (members of HKCCC)
- Part I – Looking at the whole system
Roger started by speaking of a story of cow shit. How an NGO who dealt with the middle logistic ended up taking up the debt created from unsustainable producer and buyer of the cow shit, when both were sustainable in appearance. He then drew analogy to our own group’s dynamic – the emotional pain Jessica felt as she had to run around bargain for the room, while the room turned out to be horrific, nobody showed signs of appreciation for her effort. Jessica was silent since then.
I think Roger’s point is that the issue of sustainability involves looking at the bigger system, while at the same time, it comes down to a level of detail as small as someone’s pain within a small group of people (as result of our omission?) We as a system, was responsible to Jessica’s “pain.” By discovering it, addressing it, naming it explicitly, we at least would not just assume it. By drawing parallel from our group interaction and a case, each of us became the microcosm of a system. The notion that we embody the system, especially the very system we seeks to change is very profound personally as it would seem that I no longer has the “authority” to tell others to follow me.
- Part II – Warning – mastering the Art of Persuasion
This part is best to be set out in the format of a dialogue:
R: what are the solutions we are promoting for climate change?
Adeel (A): …. We need to change people’s mindset.
R: what is mindset?
A: A belief of incentive to do something…
R: It seems to assume one has it is a set of value system. that I have a better set of values than you. How would you feel if I come to tell you that you need to change your mindset because I have better values than you?
A: I will feel OK because I would only analyze what you say and learn from you. R: I disagree. I think people will not be willing to accept whatever you propose. If idenxzxtity is a buddle of value I identify ourselves with, then I would more likely retract and defense my view because it is threatening of my identity. In fact, as I was speaking of all these, this may be happening now.
A: But I still see that I will not retract, rather, I will analyze it and try to accept your point of view and learn from that….
R: are you feeling I am actually intentionally saying something to change what you think? (repeated)
…
Later on, we examined deeper this formula that we tend to apply – that “we” need to change “their” mindset.
R: Who are “we” when we have the notion that we need to change somebody’s mindset? But everything is always changing..
From my point of view, it would seem that the opposite effect (to their intended result) is created when either of them try to persuade a point, and are made firmer in their own belief as a result.
Adeel comment– I assume people will analzyse information like I do – in an ideal dialogue – people will be open-minded, but in real world – these assumptions may not be true.
- Part III –Dialogues- Roger’s mental model
Dialogue is the guts of mental model – sadly I have a model of dialogue
I have re-read Plato and talk about it
David Bone a physician – He suggested that there are structures underlies our way of perceiving reality which can be discovered by dialogue.
4 phases to conversation
- Polite Talk
- no possibility for differences to arise,
- culturally based machinery ( we are wired)
- allow us to survive and be useful
2. Sustainable Differences
- how does difference arise? It is our interpretation of our experience of reality
- Most people would go into a loop from politeness to sustainable level of differences then back to politeness when difference become too much.
3. Inquiry
- Genuinely curious (not strategically curious)
- Recognizes your point of view →Suspend it
- Place oneself in the other person’s reality
- Aware of my own pair of sunglasses
4. Dialogue
- Involve recognition of multiple views of reality
- This is when vision can happen, emergence, forms an arise
- To me, dialogue is an active experience of participating in something much larger than you are, not separate, but exists because of your exercise
- Dialogue reaches the implicit order, the deeper structure
- In a dialogue, when you hear someone else saying what you were saying →it is beautiful
- Reveal some kind of system →this is when actions happens
- When we want to manipulate things to get things done, we cannot wait →we are already listening, but the question is, what are you listening to
There are four qualities to a genuine dialogue
i. Suspension →name the mental model which is acting on you
ii. Respect
iii. Voice – ability to express
iv. Listening
All of these are ways for you to manage your intention
Part IV – Fear based Action vs Love-based Action
Mart- but it would seem that we have to make a choice. we have to prioritise to come to have dialogue, to make sure we can learn most. We could have used this opportunity to do anything else rather then coming to this island.
R:
You seem to be making 4 assumptions:
1- scarcity of time + prioriality (the model is based on 1 day-according to mart)
2- Need to have coping mechanism
3- need to made value based choices
Te assumption is that there is something to get out of life.
But what if there is nothing to get out of life?
Time is a concept of mortality which is a very ego-based concept
We begin to hear assertions we make as if they are true
Imagine for a moment, you live in a world just as real, but life is fully abundant, there is no scarcity.
We live in a world where “scarcity of time” is so real that it is herasy to say it is only an assumption
Lots of time →boredom →fear of?
Imagine what if all the problems in this world are solved ? then what do we do ? we start creating problems (Mart)
Recognize the obligation to act and have no expectation of return
Maybe a reality we participate in that is prior to time.
Q of fear as source of action → can it be a defense against our own impermanence?
It only lasts as long as fear is there.
Fear based action is useful particularly when you have a tiger
- it is like opium, wired into us
- but it is useful as long as there is a tiger
- can it be we are addicted to this, and we assume there is a tiger in order to “solve the problem”?
- are there any alternative source of action? Love?
Mart – love is suspension of the fear state and before meaning is made
<Recommended reading -
<Pedagogy of the oppressed- Paul Freire>
Part V - Bridge
Now the question is that of a bridge
Start with assumption of loveliness,
What is the emerging world we are living →bridge the current reality when you keep the direction in mind.
Feel the tension between the fear based action and love
M – identity our act with physical body?
R – what if our nature of state is prior to distinction? We are just part of things we actively participate
If the proposition – we know how to be happy anytime –is correct
Then it implies that we are “making” unhappiness
Happiness is…
1- Freedom from material ambition
2- Freedom from internal ambition
a. i.e. to have experience
i. American men who have mid-life crisis tend to have young girls to reclaim experience of youth once they realized that they have spent their youth all on acquiring materials (money) which had not worked for the – not happy
b. to not to have ambition
c. to be free
3- Responsible for what we know
Nowadays, we seem to assume that if we have things, we will be happy.
But where is happiness? The value in things →missing
If you have a system, you try to change it without questioning its assumption, you amplify it.
Now, think of a problem, and feel it. (the sensation)
Now, think of something you are committed to. Feel it.
Now, hold them at the same time
– funny? uncertain? laugh – one way to release the tension
We can develop the capacity to be committed to your vision (everyone working towards rebuilding a healthy climate) and at the same time, stay intact with the reality in your conscious state. (one alternative to our “coping mechanism”?)
There is no desirability of happiness
What is livelihood for creativity ? Should we get compensation for creativity?
Is it how it should be?
Suspend my own belief – internalize it and make it your own
Nature of practice – failure in it.
Conclusion
Thus, I think, the entire conversation was really about this— If you have a system, you try to change it without questioning its assumption, you may even amplify it. And to question its assumption, we may need to examine our own mental model, model of change, interaction and decision-making, which may well be a product of the very institutions we tried to change. This is hugely relevant to our work as the climate change coalition as we try to create a climate for change to pursuit our vision of a sustainable world.
The proposed model is to not to ask people to do what we think they should do (which falls closer to the model of manipulation), but rather to engage people in dialogue by accepting their values and views as their experience of reality, to respect their difference in view and listen genuinely without intending to change their view.
The Experiment we started just before Roger left
Think of a problem you have now.
Would would it make possible if it is solved?
Keep asking yourself
Would would it make possible if it is solved?
Then, when it comes to the picture at the end. Hold on to it.
During the next two week: follow these three rules
1- Try your best to solve the problem
2- Do nothing
3- Pay attention to the image at the end.
e.g. Willis said her problem was that her parents won’t give her the freedom to go travel around the world herself.
If they allow it, she will be able to go to Antarctica etc. and make many friends.
If she make many friends she will….if..she will die a happy old woman.